Dear Gary--
We are getting into some really meaty stuff here.
1) First of all, let me address the concept of heaven. We don't really know what "heaven" or "the afterlife" is really going to be like. And I'm not sure I really believe in the concept of "hell." I once had a vivid nightmare that went something like this:
I was sitting on a very large bed with a group of people and we were praying together and singing songs and worshipping. It was wonderful. I felt such peace and love and happiness. And I knew that came out of my relationship with God and my fellow Christians. Then, the scene changed. The other Christians disappeared and I was wandering the streets alone. I tried to find other Christians and talk to people about God but no one understood what I was talking about. There was a complete lack of God in my surroundings. I felt such despair. I had lost that love and peace and couldn't get it back. That is when I realized that I had died and I was in hell. My "hell" was the complete lack of God. There was no fire. There were no demons. Just me. Alone.
Now, I don't know if that is what the afterlife will be like. But my hunch is that "heaven" simply means a reunion with God. After death, when we are released from our corporeal being, there will be no more barriers to our union with God and with each other. How wonderful that would be!
2) I have a hard time with the concept of Satan. I'm not sure I really believe in the existence of Satan. I think Lewis believed in Satan. You'll understand this more if you go on to read THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS. But maybe Satan is just another way of describing those parts of us that keep us from God. I don't know.
3) Your concern about belief and heaven makes me think of the age-old argument about what happens to people who don't know anything about God or Christianity. For example, what happens to indigenous peoples in parts of the world that have never been exposed to the Western concept of God? Is it fair to think that they will go to "hell" simply because they have no knowledge of God? I don't think so. A classmate of mine in college asked his pastor father the same question. His father told him, "Son, I don't know the answer to that question. But I DO know God and God is love." I think God has a way of sorting all of this out. But we should take advantage of the knowledge that we DO have.
4) Why do I love LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST so much? When I saw the film, it was truly a revelation for me. When the movie first came out, many people told me that it was the work of the devil. I heard crazy things like "Jesus has sex with Mary Magdalene on the cross!" What?!!! I was actually SCARED to see the movie. Then, in college, my pastor had a screening at the chapel. It became clear to me that none of the people who warned me about the film had actually SEEN it.
The film (and the book) reveal the human side of Jesus. If any god were omnipotent and "died" for us, it wouldn't seem to be *that* big of a deal. I mean, how much of a sacrifice is it if the god in questions feels no pain and dying is no big thing. But what if the deity can feel things like rage and fear and pain? Because He is part human? That's a whole different story. The film also brings out the fact that Judas may be the most misunderstand individual in the Bible. If he had not followed through with his mission, where would we all be? In the movie, Judas is Jesus' conscience. He makes sure that Jesus fufills his duty on earth. And because he loves Jesus, that duty is especially painful. This movie/book imagines the "last" temptation as a chance for Jesus to live a normal life. He can get off the cross instead of a being a sacrifice for humankind. And He is tempted to do so. After all, He is human as well as divine. But Judas helps Him to see that He must complete His journey to the cross to save all of us. And that is a very powerful thing. It's a real sacrifice. But when Jesus says "it is accomplished," our relationship with God takes on a whole new meaning. The slate is wiped clean and we are blessed with grace. The ultimate sacrifice has been made.
-Malady
VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS, DEUS ADERIT
Showing posts with label Existence of God. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Existence of God. Show all posts
Wednesday, April 25, 2007
Tuesday, April 24, 2007
Last Temptation
Dear Malady,
I like the Pascal chart. The "God exists/Ungodly life" intersection brings up something that intrigued me about The Last Temptation of Christ. It is this: Does God expect you to believe in Him in order to go to heaven?
I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't quit believing in God and that God was His father, but during the period Satan had duped Jesus and gave Him a human life after the attempted crucifixion, Jesus seemed to have given up on Himself and His purpose. What if Judas had never found and made clear to Jesus that Satan had tricked Him? Would Jesus have still gone to heaven?
I'm wondering about believing as a requirement to go to heaven because what if Satan took an otherwise good person and made God invisible to him/her their whole life? Why wouldn't God try harder to make Himself known and to show that person that he/she has a purpose for living?
I'm trying to determine to what extent the responsibility is mine to seek Him out. It seems that God would have to throw a person some kind of carrot so his/her interest is at least piqued. But if He never throws the carrot (or Satan successfully hides the carrot from a person for his/her entire life), should that person be disallowed from going to heaven? I'm struggling with this idea right now, but I'll keep sorting it out. In the meantime, any carrots you can throw my way so I can better understand this dilemma would be appreciated!
You discussed grace in the "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" post. I find a great deal of comfort in that explanation and it makes me believe that God would give me a break if I couldn't find a reason to believe in Him. I found Jesus's romantic love for a prostitute to be a profound combination of grace and humanity. I have always subscribed to the idea that one cannot help who one falls in love with (or just loves) and I thought it was pretty courageous to pursue that relationship so openly in Temptation. And that Jesus challenged social propriety and defended Mary in front of others showed that He was the stand-up kind of guy we should all aspire to be.
A last point about the movie, what you've talked about, and what I've run into in the second book of Mere Christianity: I'm not sure Satan was obviously evil in The Last Temptation of Christ. This is an idea that I first encountered in John Milton's Paradise Lost (which I would like to add to our reading list) and it has rocked my world ever since.
Satan was clearly a bad egg in that he lead Jesus astray for many, many years after the crucifixion. Getting married, having children and a home was not what God had intended for Jesus - I understand that. But Satan allowed Jesus to experience a kind of human happiness that, I think, helped him to better understand what humans need in their lives to want to get out of bed each morning and march on. This seems to support Lewis's explanation of the Christian view that everything has its origins in Good - including Satan. I'm interested to know how you think about this issue.
Jesus's expression of joy on the cross at the very end of the movie left me unsure of what to ultimately think, however. Is the purpose of living to grow the soul or pursue happiness? I think the best-lived lives are those that combine both. But why does it remind me so much of your "walking the tightrope" image...?
I like the Pascal chart. The "God exists/Ungodly life" intersection brings up something that intrigued me about The Last Temptation of Christ. It is this: Does God expect you to believe in Him in order to go to heaven?
I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't quit believing in God and that God was His father, but during the period Satan had duped Jesus and gave Him a human life after the attempted crucifixion, Jesus seemed to have given up on Himself and His purpose. What if Judas had never found and made clear to Jesus that Satan had tricked Him? Would Jesus have still gone to heaven?
I'm wondering about believing as a requirement to go to heaven because what if Satan took an otherwise good person and made God invisible to him/her their whole life? Why wouldn't God try harder to make Himself known and to show that person that he/she has a purpose for living?
I'm trying to determine to what extent the responsibility is mine to seek Him out. It seems that God would have to throw a person some kind of carrot so his/her interest is at least piqued. But if He never throws the carrot (or Satan successfully hides the carrot from a person for his/her entire life), should that person be disallowed from going to heaven? I'm struggling with this idea right now, but I'll keep sorting it out. In the meantime, any carrots you can throw my way so I can better understand this dilemma would be appreciated!
You discussed grace in the "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" post. I find a great deal of comfort in that explanation and it makes me believe that God would give me a break if I couldn't find a reason to believe in Him. I found Jesus's romantic love for a prostitute to be a profound combination of grace and humanity. I have always subscribed to the idea that one cannot help who one falls in love with (or just loves) and I thought it was pretty courageous to pursue that relationship so openly in Temptation. And that Jesus challenged social propriety and defended Mary in front of others showed that He was the stand-up kind of guy we should all aspire to be.
A last point about the movie, what you've talked about, and what I've run into in the second book of Mere Christianity: I'm not sure Satan was obviously evil in The Last Temptation of Christ. This is an idea that I first encountered in John Milton's Paradise Lost (which I would like to add to our reading list) and it has rocked my world ever since.
Satan was clearly a bad egg in that he lead Jesus astray for many, many years after the crucifixion. Getting married, having children and a home was not what God had intended for Jesus - I understand that. But Satan allowed Jesus to experience a kind of human happiness that, I think, helped him to better understand what humans need in their lives to want to get out of bed each morning and march on. This seems to support Lewis's explanation of the Christian view that everything has its origins in Good - including Satan. I'm interested to know how you think about this issue.
Jesus's expression of joy on the cross at the very end of the movie left me unsure of what to ultimately think, however. Is the purpose of living to grow the soul or pursue happiness? I think the best-lived lives are those that combine both. But why does it remind me so much of your "walking the tightrope" image...?
Pascal's Wager
Dear Gary,
I know you haven't had time to respond to my last post but I thought of this today and wanted to share it with you.
I minored in Philosophy in college and some of the "big questions" of philosophy have to do with God and the meaning of life. Blaise Pascal came up with a wager that described how he began to believe in God. It goes something like this.
Draw a chart on a piece of paper with four boxes (two on top and two below). At the top of the chart, write "God exists" and "God Doesn't Exist" over each box. At the side, write "Godly Life" and "Ungodly Life" beside each box. Okay, now we are going to fill in the boxes.
Write "-1" in the box where "God Doesn't Exist" and "Godly Life" intersect. If you have followed all the "rules" and lived a good life and then, after death, you discover that God doesn't exist, that nets you a -1 because you could have been doing whatever the heck you wanted but you led a Godly life instead. A waste of time.
Write "+1" in the box where "God Doesn't Exist" and "Ungodly Life" intersect. If you have lived your life however you want to and then it turns out that there is no God, well you have netted +1. You have gotten to do whatever you want. Hooray for you.
Write "- (minus) infinity" in the box where "God Exists" and "Ungodly Life" intersect. Let's say you spent your life doing whatever you want and not believing in God and then it turns out that there IS a God after all. Oops. Not a good outcome.
Write "+ infinity" in the box where "God Exists" and "Godly Life" intersect. What if you have believed in God and done your very best to live a godly life? And then it turns out that there IS a God. Well, as my college professor put it, "you have won the cosmic lottery!"
So, if we compare the different outcomes, we see that the best you can do while NOT believing in God is a "+1." The best you can do with BELIEVING in God is "+ infinity." And then look at the WORST you can do in each case. Pascal points out that you are better off believing because the worst that can happen is a "-1."
This is a pretty logical, unemotional and simplified way to look at things but I always enjoyed the idea of it.
-Malady
I know you haven't had time to respond to my last post but I thought of this today and wanted to share it with you.
I minored in Philosophy in college and some of the "big questions" of philosophy have to do with God and the meaning of life. Blaise Pascal came up with a wager that described how he began to believe in God. It goes something like this.
Draw a chart on a piece of paper with four boxes (two on top and two below). At the top of the chart, write "God exists" and "God Doesn't Exist" over each box. At the side, write "Godly Life" and "Ungodly Life" beside each box. Okay, now we are going to fill in the boxes.
Write "-1" in the box where "God Doesn't Exist" and "Godly Life" intersect. If you have followed all the "rules" and lived a good life and then, after death, you discover that God doesn't exist, that nets you a -1 because you could have been doing whatever the heck you wanted but you led a Godly life instead. A waste of time.
Write "+1" in the box where "God Doesn't Exist" and "Ungodly Life" intersect. If you have lived your life however you want to and then it turns out that there is no God, well you have netted +1. You have gotten to do whatever you want. Hooray for you.
Write "- (minus) infinity" in the box where "God Exists" and "Ungodly Life" intersect. Let's say you spent your life doing whatever you want and not believing in God and then it turns out that there IS a God after all. Oops. Not a good outcome.
Write "+ infinity" in the box where "God Exists" and "Godly Life" intersect. What if you have believed in God and done your very best to live a godly life? And then it turns out that there IS a God. Well, as my college professor put it, "you have won the cosmic lottery!"
So, if we compare the different outcomes, we see that the best you can do while NOT believing in God is a "+1." The best you can do with BELIEVING in God is "+ infinity." And then look at the WORST you can do in each case. Pascal points out that you are better off believing because the worst that can happen is a "-1."
This is a pretty logical, unemotional and simplified way to look at things but I always enjoyed the idea of it.
-Malady
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